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Discussion Starter #1
Just to show that I have not read the handbook yet...it's in Polish...and I read that VERY SLOWLY...and I can't be hashed downloading the online English version. Can anybody who has the auto box tell me if it applies to that or only the manual version?
I'm wondering about these kind of things and how the Captur will handle on snow..which is forecast and falling lightly as I write this..
 

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Fairly sure the Captur Auto has it as well Ythsie,it will of course have the "creep" ( sorry no offence meant!
) function being an autobox it will hold and creep forward on hill if no footbrake applied.
 

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Ythsie,

Sorry I have not replied to this sooner, but there are not too many hills in Suffolk
.

As I have said on another thread; the operations manuals are generic, and not specific to a particular model, trim or engine/gearbox set up. This makes it difficult to determine whether or not a particular feature is present on a vehicle. So I thought I would go for a practical test as we have the same engine and gearbox configuration.

So today I found a suitable 10% hill and stopped half-way up. I can now say positively that EDC configured Capturs do NOT have hill start assist.

***The abovestatement, as I have now discovered is incorrect. EDC Captures do have Hill Start Assist. Please see below. I left this post, as is, so that references made to it remain consistent.***

After I stopped I applied the handbrake and selected neutral. The handbrake (after six clicks) held the car in place. I then selected drive and without adding any throttle, Ireleased the handbrake. The car immediately slipped backwards; the auto box not holding either. I didn't expect it to, as a 10% hill would take some holding on gearbox alone (and is not recommended anyway). I tried this a couple of times with and without good engine power, and found that there was no way that hill start assist exists on EDC Capturs. So I suggest that you use the typical hill start procedure for automatics (which is effectively the same as manual boxes anyway). This is; engage drive, simultaneously increase the revs and slowly release the handbrake until the balance (biting) point is reached. Then fully release the handbrake whilst increasing the revs. Doing this will result in a clean hill start, with no rolling back.

Finally, I do not recommend anyone trying to either balance an auto-box car on a hill using engine speed alone, or allowing the car to roll backwards, whilst forward gear is engaged.This will puta lot of stress on the clutch and gearbox.




I hope this rather long diatribe has helped you EDC gearbox owners out there.

* I have revisited the means by which Hill Start Assist works, please see below. I apologise for any confusion this post may have caused.









Edited by: crossbow
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Crossbow, thanks very much for going to all that trouble to find out!
Very much appreciated!!
I did wonder whether there would be, bearing in mind how an auto box works.
Obviously one of the rare times that you would use the handbrake, as many people do not bother to apply it when in 'Park' unless parked on an incline.
Thanks once again!!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Have you tried the box in manual mode?....if so, what are your opinions of it?
I'm going for a run with my partner to test it out, as it may be wise to use that selection to run in snowy conditions.
 

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Ythsie,

I haven't tried the manual mode. I would be interested in you and your partner's opinion. Later in the week I am going for a 160mile round trip, I may give it a go, if I remember. I do so like the auto-mode, Iwould be inclined not to bother with the manual mode, unless I have to.




Edited by: crossbow
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Will give you feedback when we use it. My partner loves the auto box and we would rarely use it out of that mode...but as I say winters are harsh here with icy roads or deep snow...so we're better having a look at it now!


Edited by: Ythsie
 

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crossbow said:
So today I found a suitable 10% hill and stopped half-way up. I can now say positively that EDC configured Capturs do NOT have hill start assist.

After I stopped I applied the handbrake and selected neutral. The handbrake (after six clicks) held the car in place. I then selected drive and without adding any throttle, I released the handbrake. The car immediately slipped backwards; the auto box not holding either. I didn't expect it to, as a 10% hill would take some holding on gearbox alone (and is not recommended anyway). I tried this a couple of times with and without good engine power, and found that there was no way that hill start assist exists on EDC Capturs.
Is this how the manual explains hill start assist should work as that's different to other cars I've used it in, including our former smart and current C4 Picasso; hill start assist works by being on an incline (or decline) and holding the car on the foot brake - as you take your foot off the brake the car will hold for a few seconds, enough time to get on the throttle and pull away without starting to move downhill; the C4P won't allow you to release the handbrake without having your foot on the brake (or it also auto releases as you pull away) so I couldn't replicate what you suggest in that car (my foot would be on the brake therefore repeating my initial description) but in our smart releasing the handbrake and the car would roll straight away; it's foot-brake activated, not handbrake. Can't remember with the smart but the C4P only activates hill start assist at a decent gradient - a slight gradient doesn't activate it.

I'm looking to drive an EDC tce as this seems to be the model that suits our requirements most!
 

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Frank,

Thanks for your observations. I tried these things you talk about, but the EDC did not respond to what I would have expected. The Hill-start assist provides a 2 second delay on releasing the footbrake. This is how it was described to me. Those who have used hill start assist will correct me if I am wrong. It may be that 10% is simply too steep for the Hill Start Assist to work effectively. I must admit I wouldn't like to try to move from brake pedal to throttle ona 10% slope without using the handbrake. So perhaps the handbrake interferes with the hill start assist in some way. I will have to give it a go on a more gentle slope, and try moving off without applying the handbrake, moving from footbrake to throttle as the handbook says. I may have been asking too much of the Hill Start Assist, and I thought the "hills" in Suffolk were *****-cats compared to other places.
The handbook does say that EDC do have Hill Start Assist, but it certainly works differently to an automatic handbrake I have had.

I have had two Espaces in the past; one with an automatic gearbox and one with a manual gearbox. These had automatic handbrakes. The handbrake was applied automatically by an electric motor coupled with an inclinometer, when the engine was switched off, or when a switch under the dashboard was used. There were sensors to detect the point of balance/bite so that the computer would then release the handbrake. This was the same on either the automatic or the manual gearbox versions I had. They never gave any trouble and I could move off smoothly on hills such as the one I described. However, Hill Start Assist is not the same as an automatic handbrake.

If I should discover that one can use hill start assist on more gentle slopes in my EDC, I will let the forum know.







Edited by: crossbow
 

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How you describe the Espace handbrake is exactly the same as the normal operation of the C4P handbrake and is common for the breed, HSA is an additional function but doesn't require use of the handbrake at all, it couldn't in the Captur being a normal handbrake.

A hill in Suffolk - I can't remember seeing it!
 

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Under the guidance of Frank Bullitt, I have revisited the means by which Hill Start Assist acts as an aid to the driver, and have concluded the following.

EDC configured vehiclesDOHAVE Hill Start Assist. It works in forward drive (when pointing up hill) AND in reverse (when pointing down hill). The handbrake can interfere with the action, so anyone wishing to use this facility should take this into consideration.

I found this information out through practical experimentation on a local (and one of only a few 10% hills in Suffolk
)

I am not used to stopping in an area where the car might roll backward without using a handbrake, so was undertaking my initial testing using the handbrake as a "safety" device. This I have found can interfere with the Hill Start Assist (HSA), so beware if you use the handbrake, and then think HSA will still be operative, it may not.

The wayHSA has been designed to operate is to hold the braking tension induced by the footbrake for UP TO 2 seconds. Once the sensors detect forward movement (or perhaps an easing in the tension due to engine power)the brakes are released. Interestingly this also happens when pointdown-hill and using reverse. See the handbook which mentions Drive AND Reverse, by implication.

To use the HSA facility effectively, one has to hold the car on the slope using the footbrake, and without using the handbrake (which was my down-fall) move the foot to the throttle. You then have two seconds in which to find the balance point and move off. Failure to move off within 2 seconds could result in the car rolling backward, if the hill is steep enough. However, under normal circumstances the driver will have found the balance point and started to move away.

I hope this explanation helps those of you with EDC cars, and corrects my statements that I made in error due to my having tried to undertake the practical tests using the handbrake as a backup, coupled with my experience with Renault's Automatic Handbrake system.




PS. Hill Start Assist even works on my pet 10% hill, so no worries there.




Edited by: crossbow
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Crossbow, when I started this thread, I thought it was a case of yes/no
Instead you actually went to a heck of a lot of bother to find things out!
For that I'm eternally grateful!!

Frank you came onto the scene and I look forward to having you as an EDC 'supporter' on the forum!

I like the fact that you stand up for the benefits of having a petrol Captur....we all make/made our choices based on needs and preferences!
I understand mpg 'can' be important but isn't in my particular case!!....Refinement is!!!!
 

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Well, we'll have fun working out the EDC and hill start mode(s) on my driveway



Edited by: IvorETower
 

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Discussion Starter #18
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Tyrfelin....you still live!!! I actually put it on my Nexus...and now have it to hand....but in the early days of this forum, I was a lazy geezer a bit like a nice Welshman I came to know on the forum!!!
 

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Been to Tenerife for two weeks! But get this - saw not a single Captur! Don't know any lazy Welsh men! Hum..........Edited by: Tyrfelin
 
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